Suspension upgrade nightmare on '93 400E

[sermet]

G'Day to you all,

I am hoping to get some ideas as to where I should turn to for solving a suspension upgrade nightmare. First, the info about my vehicle:
1993 400E, 225,000 km, 225/45Z17 tires on AMG 17x7.5" rims w/ET37. 500E swaybars front and rear.

Now, the upgrade info:
Just replaced the stock suspension with H&R lowering springs (1.3-in front and rear) and Bilstein Sport shocks/struts. 13-mm spacers all around. Performed four-wheel alignment and ended up with serious rubbing on the right front (you cannot stick your pinky between the tire and the fender). Spent the weekend contemplating solutions (body shop suggested that with fender already touching the tire, rolling would be a mute point). Took measurements of left and right front from wheel center to fender, and decided that replacing the shims with 18-mm for both rears and left front, and with 23-mm for right front should solve the problem. Ended up with less rubbing, but it looks like the right fender is still about 1-cm lower than the right one. Do any of you had any experience similar, and had any solutions? How can I tell if either the springs or the struts are defective on one side (i.e., just swap the components from the right- with the left-side in the front?

It looks like my choices may be limited to either ordering and installing the Euro-spec MB springs all around for the firmer ride quality I have been seeking at first place, or get another set of rims with a different offset. Puzzling part is why only the right front, even after staggering the shim thickness? Am I overlooking someting? Could there have been anything wrong with the installation (Evertything was installed at a shop that specializes in MB service/repair).

Appreciate any feedback. Cheers,

[fasteddy]

I'll give it a shot here.

1/ are the springs new? If not, have they been cut?
2/ ride height has nothing to do with the dampers. The springs are what holding the car up.
3/ Check for proper installation at spring perch. Make sure it is completely falls into it's cavity. Off by 1/2 turn could off by 1/2" in height.
4/ you should not need to stagger shims if springs and installations are proper.

There are the odd defective weak spring. Double check for tension.

What size and offset of rims are you running?

Worst I've seen was a rusted and collapsed top spring perch.

[sermet]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Here are the answers to the questions:
1. Yes, the springs, shocks/struts, strut mounts, etc. all were brand new, and the springs were not cut.
2. I thought so, but since I replaced everything at once I had to indicate that.
3. I am not sure if I can check for that myself. I will jack up the car, put it on stands and see if I can see anything. Considering the springs were installed at an independent shop last week, the shims were replaced today by my regular MB service shop, and the problem persisted, I can only hope that they did install the springs right. Perhaps I should have rented a spring compessor and try to install these myself (no time with two small kids, though).
4. I did that only because of what I read in section 40.03 of the maintenance manual. It suggested that there is indeed a height difference tolerance between left and right, and it may be as much as 1.5 cm. It also suggested that shims of different thickness may be used. So, I followed.

As soon as the mechanic who originally installed the springs comes back from vacation, I will go back and ask them to check for spring tension, perhaps swapping the left and right to see if the height difference also switches sides.

The current rims are genuine AMG 17x7.5 ET37 from Tire Rack (Style 209 double spoke). I noticed posts at number of forums that applied the same modification to 300E/E320 (inc. the same wheel setup) without any rubbing or problems. Perhaps this one will turn out to be a 400E-specific problem.

If the top spring perch is collapsed, shouldn't have the installer(s) noticed and raised it as a concern? Perhaps not. I will ask that question. Side bar - if the top spring perch is compromised, what would be the remedy?

Thanks again for your time.

Cheers

[fasteddy]

You can buy the top spring perch from the dealer as a repair part. Have a bodyshop repalce and weld the new one on. Like you said, the installer should had noticed it.

Certainly someone has missed something. Either the manufacturer or the installer. If it was a even ride height OEM, why shouldn't it be now if all things are equal.

[sermet]

Fasteddy,
Spoke to my regular mechanic at MB this morning, and he confirmed that there was no visible damage in my spring perch, nor he noticed any installation issues with the springs or the shocks/struts He must have had a very good look since he replaced all four shims). His only comment was perhaps I may have a bent chassis because of the V8, and suggested that I may consider getting it measured.

Done more reading for my dissertation on how-to-leave-your-car-alone. MB maintenance document for W124 does state that there may be a difference of upto 15 mm between the right and left. What bothers me is that my 400E may very well be the car that is at the limit of allowable tolerance for the height differential.

To make things worse, when I increased the shim thickness on the right side from 13-mm to 23-mm, I may have caused a camber shift to positive, and that is probably what led to the fender damage (even though it was rubbing with basically no clearance it did not at least caused and serious damage). I was just too disappointed to see that the car did not raise as much as I projected, and canceled the alignment appointment. Well, live and learn.

Tuesday morning, I will be going back to the shop. First I will have the right and left springs swapped (to rule out that one of the springs by a long shot out-of-spec), put the 13-mm shim back on the left side, and have the 4-wheel alignment redone. If this does not work, I will probably just order a set of Euro spec springs for E420 and forget H&R route.

Have a great weekend.

[fasteddy]

It is odd to see if the car was level before the H&R and now you have a bent chassis?

I would like hear your future post.

[sermet]

Well, just spoke to my mechanic and he says he did eveything he could with the ride height, but it looks like the main cause of rubbing is the fact that my right front wheel is sticking out more than the left side. We verified that the springs are the same, and there does not appear to be any damage in the spring perch. Although he cannot measure, he believes that my right control arm might be damaged such that my right front wheel is sticking out. Once he told me this I recalled falling into a monster storm drain two years ago so hard that I bent my right wheels. The front wheel (a 17x8 Rondell #53, AMG replica) was damaged so badly that it was a write-off. The rear was repaired but not to my satisfaction). I even went back to my regular MB service and had the car checked out. Nothing was evident then. I am thinking if somehow the control arm was bent/damaged during that incident, it was not noticed because the car was riding high anyways. Now that it is low, it is obvious, and causing grief.

Any idea how one can tell if the control arm is damaged? Could there be anything else that may cause my right wheel to stick out (all four wheels are identical, and we swapped them around to test as well)?

I get a wheel alignment done on an annual basis, and I newer noticed any uneven tire wear. How come a problem such as this can go unnoticed for so long? Also, my car tracks/drives straight and true, and it always did.

Finally, do I replace the control arm (I am told that a new control arm is about $1,000, but if there might be other factors causing this problem I will be throwing good money after bad) or say heck with it and go back to OEM springs (though even with the rubbing the car now drives so nice )?

Appreciate all the feedback as always.

[fasteddy]

From what you have told me so far. The car could be dog tracking. (all four wheels would point straight, but one or more off to one side) A good 4-wheel alignment should able to see this. Perhaps even a detail chassis measurement may called upon.

[sportline7]

Not sure about all, but as far as the tire clearance, I used a baseball bat and rolled the front fenders on my daughters 190E 2.6. The body  shop said they could not do it... Just slow and easy with the help of a heat gun and no paint damage, looks perfect 205/55/16s on C class 10 spoke wheels.